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It is so encouraging that the stories of lesbians from the past, once all but untold, are slowly starting to surface. We can certainly use all the heroines we can get to bolster our own pride and, more importantly, the pride of the growing ranks of out teens. Two of the newest heroines to surface are Lilly Wust and Felice Schragenheim, better known by their nicknames Aimée and Jaguar. Through a book, documentaries, and now narrative film, Lilly and Felice's story has inspired thousands. Lilly, a German woman married to a Nazi soldier, fell in love against all odds with Felice, a Jew, during the height of World War II. How could such a romance happen, let alone last? Felice -- for those who haven't heard the story yet -- was killed by the Nazis. But the stout, energetic, cigarette-smoking Lilly, now 86, is very much alive, and recently she sat down in a New York City hotel to talk with PopcornQ. PopcornQ: Did lesbian rights or the gay pride movement in Germany give you the freedom to open up about your past? Lilly Wust: The time was ripe to tell the story, and the time was ripe to release the film. PopcornQ: But was the time ripe because of gay activists and gay filmmakers like Rosa von Praunheim? LW: The gay movement in Berlin is a lot stronger than the lesbian movement. So people like Rosa who have a lot to say are heard, whereas the lesbians are more invisible. I never felt secure about telling my story, and I only did it after a lengthy process. After I got the Bundesverdienst Kross back in 1981, I was approached by an American journalist who wanted to write a book about my life. I actually met with him for a few times, but I wasn't honest with him. I gave him things in my diary but also hid certain other things. It was only after my second son, who lives in Israel, told me, "Mom, if you're going to do it, then do it right! Tell the entire story or don't tell it at all." So it was actually my son who convinced me to tell my story and to out myself. PopcornQ: When did the book come out in Germany and what was the reaction? LW: The book was first released six years ago and there was an incredible echo to the book, and it became an immediate bestseller. It was an incredible success, the book. PopcornQ: How did that change you? You became a celebrity? LW: In a way, sure. People spoke to me on the streets. People recognized me. I did a lot of very prestigious talk shows in Germany. And then I did a documentary film with a French team. And then a BBC documentary. And there was also a documentary done in Berlin. So all of a sudden I was all over. PopcornQ: In the film, it's stated that you never ever had another relationship with a woman again. Is there any truth to that? LW: That's true. I was still attached to Felice. I'm still with her. PopcornQ: So there's no chance for any American women getting it on with you? LW: [Laughs] No. Sorry, girls. PopcornQ: That is indeed sad for PopcornQ readers. LW: I still love beautiful women ... and I still love to watch them, but that's it. PopcornQ: Did you ever have crushes on Marlene Dietrich or Garbo? LW: Garbo, sure, but not Marlene. She was a great actress but I never had a crush on her.
LW: Yes; it's incredible the aura that Maria [Schrader] has in the film. That was very much the charm and personality that Felice had. I found my part in the film a little less colorful, although I find that Juliane Köhler is a wonderful actress. PopcornQ: You've said you've been upset with some of the falsities in the film. In the long run, do you love the film more than you have problems with it? LW: I'm very aware that a film is a film and that certain fictitious elements have to be built into the narrative, but that wasn't my point at all. My main concern was Felice. She's the only reason I consented to this. PopcornQ: Is this your first time in the United States? LW: No. PopcornQ: Have you been here a lot? LW: A quarter of a year ago I traveled for the first time in my life to the United States. I traveled to the Golden Globe ceremonies. But this is my first time in New York. PopcornQ: Did you meet any famous lesbians in Los Angeles like Ellen DeGeneres? LW: No, not personally, but I know of certain American actresses who are openly gay. Some of these actresses I hold in high esteem. PopcornQ: Jodie Foster will be happy to hear that. LW: [Laughs] PopcornQ: Now some say this film includes the best lesbian love scenes to ever make it to the screen. Do you agree, and were you embarrassed by them? LW: No. PopcornQ: Are you proud of them? LW: Not proud, but it was just beautiful because that's the way it was. Why should I be embarrassed about the way it was? PopcornQ: Germany has a strong Right Wing, and there are a lot of people there who dislike gays. Has anybody denounced you? LW: Not because of Felice's story. Not after the publication of the book ... but when I received the Bundesverdienst Cross, the honorary cross back in 1981. I actually got the cross not just because of Felice, but because I also saved the lives of three other women, who I hid in my apartment. And when that story hit the newspapers, that that's why I had gotten the cross, that was the first time I received any hatred against myself. PopcornQ: I don't know the story of the three women. Can you elaborate on that? LW: After Felice was taken away, because I was so terribly alone, I would go to a club that we had used to hang out at. It's when I went there in the evenings that I noticed three women. The three ladies were all ten years older than me, and one evening I just wanted to get to know them, so I approached them. I started talking to them. And they were three marvelously intelligent women. That grew into a really nice friendship, so we started to meet regularly. Until one day I said to them, "Why don't you come up and visit me so we don't always have to hang out in the club at night?" The first invitation they refused. They had their reasons. Then, on the next day, the middle woman invited me to a restaurant to explain to me. Because we had already become friends, they were very well aware of my political positions and what I thought about the war. When we got to know each other, it became very quickly evident to all of four of us [we] were not Nazis and supporters of Hitler or the war. So we met the next day and we were talking about banal things. Then all of a sudden, the woman asked me, "Are you one of the rats? Do you denounce people?" The fact that she'd asked me if I was somewhat of a collaborator was already a very dangerous question. Then when she saw how I reacted to that question, she revealed to me and said, "We're nothing else but like your girlfriend Felice." Then they told me the condition under which the three were living, and that was absolutely horrible. I told her, "Enough with that. You guys are going to come and live with me now." So they moved in with me. PopcornQ: So they were Jewish lesbians? LW: Yes. Lesbians and Jewish. PopcornQ: Well, I want to thank you. Viele danke. LW: [Laughs] * Read the PopcornQ review of Aimée and Jaguar * Read the PopcornQ review of the documentary Love Story: Berlin 1942 * Buy the book Aimée and Jaguar: A Love Story, Berlin 1943 PQ MOVIE NEWS: PQ Video Hot List | Interviews | Advance Guide to Queer Film | Movie News Archive | PQ Video Hot Lists Galore MORE NEWS ON PLANETOUT: PlanetOut News & Politics | PlanetOutRadio | Entertainment
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